Official Forum for the HOMETOWN Minetest game server.

Item frame

If you've seen something awesome that we may enjoy on HOMETOWN... please let us know about it.
Im not able to open chest when i put item frame on it. Can we have item frame smaller or something?
Screenshot_20180225-152812.png
Screenshot_20180225-152812.png (133.85 KiB) Viewed 160 times
I think this special case for you only. It does not common for placing the chests like this in your screenshot.
pangland wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:22 pm
I think this special case for you only. It does not common for placing the chests like this in your screenshot.
Agreed.
Although I am currently rewriting Sofar's "frames" mod and am planning to use it on HOMETOWN. They are slightly smaller and do not go quite to the edges of the node it's placed on. I'll make sure the selection box doesn't either. You should be able to reach your chest's then.

Be warned. These non-laggy frames will not support the 3D entities. They will merely be a flat image.
Regular item frames are known to be laggy for many reasons. The ones in the future will free up a ton of resources on the server and everyone's clients.
frame_demo.png
frame_demo.png (309.31 KiB) Viewed 153 times
In this demo I have a new frame placed on a chest to show the edges of the chest will be exposed. To the right, there is a "item frame" showing how the new ones look compared the what we have currently. Also note there is a hopper in the new frame. The hoppers and several of our nodes were very tough to support. Sofar's version of "frames" is awesome, but due to engine there are many nodes that can't be supported 'magically', He supports MOST of the nodes that comes with default Minetest. I've been going through all our nodes one by one and if they don't work, I've been coding them special so they will. I'm currently about 80% complete as it's very time consuming.

Edit: I wanted to add. Another advantage of non-entity frames is the lighting will be correct. The item inside the frame will not be oddly dark as entities are in game.
ExeterDad wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:22 pm
Regular item frames are known to be laggy for many reasons.
What is the deal with entities causing lag? Everyone complains about it but I don't see how static entities cause lag, only moving ones (since they require processing time on the server and use up network bandwidth to send position updates).
user2 wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:06 pm
ExeterDad wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:22 pm
Regular item frames are known to be laggy for many reasons.
What is the deal with entities causing lag? Everyone complains about it but I don't see how static entities cause lag, only moving ones (since they require processing time on the server and use up network bandwidth to send position updates).
Sofar does a pretty good job explaining throughout his frames thread.
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16585

But one thing he didn't really mention is that the generated meshes for the entities contain many triangles. Each pixel of the inventory image used to generate the mesh basically becomes a complete cube in the mesh. So one pixel of color requires 12 triangles. The basic very low res texture has 16 pixels. Of course most of the inventory images are way beyond that. You don't have to do much math to realize how inefficient the generated entities can be. We've all noted a fps drop when tearing down a large build and leaving the drops on the ground to spin. Especially the flat ones.

They're working on optimizing the generated entities, but even still, there's a ton of unneeded poly's. Here's a screenshot (from github) )of the inside of one of the entities spinning on the ground. The ones in the item frames are the same way.
Image
ExeterDad wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:16 pm
Sofar does a pretty good job explaining throughout his frames thread.
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16585
I still don't understand. Without an explicit explanation of how a static (i.e. no network bandwidth) entity with no active code behind it (i.e. no processing time) creates lag I still feel like most of the entity fuss is FUD (entity = lag = bad, without looking what causes entities to create lag and what entities this applies to).
user2 wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 12:00 pm
ExeterDad wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:16 pm
Sofar does a pretty good job explaining throughout his frames thread.
https://forum.minetest.net/viewtopic.php?t=16585
I still don't understand. Without an explicit explanation of how a static (i.e. no network bandwidth) entity with no active code behind it (i.e. no processing time) creates lag I still feel like most of the entity fuss is FUD (entity = lag = bad, without looking what causes entities to create lag and what entities this applies to).
I don't think the rotating entities like those pedestals or dropped items use are rotated server-side.

We're talking about 2 different types of lag here, network lag (such as that induced when a player moves on a slow connection) and client lag, which is induced client-side only when the client is being asked to render lots of stuff. So while the itemframe entities create almost no network lag, they can create significant client lag due to how they are rendered. So, if you have a fairly powerful client you probably won't notice it that much, but many of our regular players play on mobile/older hardware so do notice.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here, but I think that's the confusion :lol:
ChimneySwift wrote:
Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:14 pm
We're talking about 2 different types of lag here, network lag (such as that induced when a player moves on a slow connection) and client lag, which is induced client-side only when the client is being asked to render lots of stuff. So while the itemframe entities create almost no network lag, they can create significant client lag due to how they are rendered. So, if you have a fairly powerful client you probably won't notice it that much, but many of our regular players play on mobile/older hardware so do notice.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you here, but I think that's the confusion :lol:
Are you talking about framerate drops? That's not lag, it's a framerate drop. Lag normally refers specifically to either a delay in getting the information from the server to the client (due to high connection latency or insufficient bandwidth) or a delay in actually processing the game state on the server (due to large amounts of processing on each game cycle as a result of long callbacks or a large number of active objects).
You say Tomato, I may say Tomaahto. But from the eyes of the player, any hiccup is lag.
So... we're working on it.
No need to be splitting hairs about the definition. :roll:
ExeterDad wrote:
Tue Feb 27, 2018 4:30 pm
You say Tomato, I may say Tomaahto. But from the eyes of the player, any hiccup is lag.
So... we're working on it.
No need to be splitting hairs about the definition. :roll:
Would've been simpler to just say "framerate drop" though because this a technical discussion and there's a reason why there are different terms for different things. A non-technical player might call it "lag" but technically it's not, and I don't think anyone in this discussion would fail to understand the term "framerate drop".

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